HPforGrownups
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HPforGrownups is a Harry Potter mailing list.
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[edit] Timeline
- On September 17, 1999, HPforGrownups, a mailing list which now has over 21,000 members, was founded. The HPforGrownups website was founded on August 25, 2000.
- By June 2000, the list had a policy of no introductions.
- By August 27, 2000, Heidi8 and Cassandra Claire were aware of each other enough for Heidi to be actively plugging Cassandra Claire's work on HPforGrownups. [1] This post reads as follows:
- badgers' kin wrote:
- > Are there any more out there that someone would recommend? I know
- > there are thousands, but really, I'd like a hint at some of the
- > better
- > ones, in you opinion.
- Has anyone recommended Draco Dormiens from Cassandra Claire?
- You can find it at http://www.fanfiction.net too. [2]
- Heidi's post was a bit unusual in the context of the conversation. Heidi's post focused only on Cassandra Claire, not making any references to other works. This stands out as other posts were discussing other authors, and naming multiple names. [3][4]
- On September 15, 2000, Cassandra Claire made her first post to HPforGrownups. [5] That same day, Cassandra Claire left feedback for Al, author of the popular Harry/Draco Snitch story. [6][7] This feedback leaving is important as it goes to demonstrate the climate in that part of the Harry Potter fan fiction community at that time. An author would leave another author feedback. The author receiving the feedback would then return the favor and leave feedback in kind. [8] It was a feedback reciprocity system and it worked to help make fans bigger names. Cassandra Claire also publicly praised these authors in various circles. Those authors would leave feedback and praise of Cassandra Claire in kind. This helped to endear Cassandra Claire to others because most fans like such public praise. It helped to make Cassandra Claire more well known. Helping along this process was Heidi8, who, while publicly praising other authors, would most loudly and consistently praise Cassandra Claire. Heidi8 was Cassandra Claire's second biggest supporter in this early period of Cassandra Claire's writing. The biggest supporter though was Cassandra Claire herself who was actively promoting herself on several mailing lists, including ParadigmOfUncertainty where she plugged her story on September 22, 2000. [9] Cassandra Claire's leaving of feedback for Al [10] is also important because it signals the start of her trip to the realm of slash.
- In October 2000, the ship war started. It involved Harry/Hermione fen versus Ron/Hermione fen. It took place on HPforGrownups. [11] The Harry/Hermione shippers were Penny_Linsenmayer, Ebony, Lori Summers, Cassandra Claire, and Heidi8. The Ron/Hermione shippers were Elanor Gamgee, Zsenya, Moey Knight, and Firoza. Heidi's involvement was not so much a shipper but as defending her Harry/Hermione loving friends in spite of the fact that Heidi was a Draco/Hermione shipper. [12] This ship war eventually led to the creation of SugarQuill on January 5, 2001 because some Ron/Hermione and canon-centered fans felt extremely uncomfortable with the resulting climate. That climate included what some felt to be a victory for the Harry/Hermione component who were free to be more aggressive with their views on HPforGrownups and in other fannish circles. It left those on the Ron/Hermione shippers in the cold, being dismissed as canon nazis. It worked towards uniting certain fan bases in a bandwagon around Cassandra Claire with Heidi being front and center as one of the leaders in protecting Cassandra Claire and that community. The ship war elevated their status in fandom.
- On December 22, 2000, Ebony made the following post to HPforGrownUps:
- Message 7557
- From: "Ebony "
- Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:47 am
- Subject: Re: The Kiss
This post goes to further emphasize the influence that key stories like Lori Summers's Paradigm of Uncertainty had on other authors and those authors' ship preferences during that era.
- At some point during December 2000, Peg Kerr, a professional author, had entered Cassandra Claire's professional author friends. This was one of her earliest professional author aquaintences, an aquaintence type that she would begin to actively court. Peg Kerr would become a regular in HPforGrownUps regular Sunday chats.
- January 2001 rolled around. Canon purists on HPforGrownUps had begun to realize that various established places for Harry Potter discussion were not for them. [14][15][16] The ship war back in October 2000 had confirmed it. Authors like Cassandra Claire and Lori Summers were immensely popular and had a fan base who would and did push their fan oriented views on canon purists. This pushiness, this trying to assert control over the nature of various discussions of the canon, which was still going on, led to SugarQuill being founded on January 3, 2001. This pushiness would also lead to some harshness later over such issues as Cassandra Claire's stalker, Gryffindor Tower and more. The canon purists that stay on HPforGrownUps tended to be ones who were not invested in the fan fiction community. Still, there were bigger issues going on that month that would be more memorable in this history of Heidi and Cassandra Claire's involvement in the fan fiction community.
- On January 24, 2001, Heidi8 made a post to HPforGrownups on her view of the legality of fan fiction, disclaimers and her past own actions. [17] This post is notable because it goes towards establishing the context of later behavior on her part and the image that Heidi is actively trying to portray in fandom: a lawyer specializing in intellectual property who is also an ethical individual. Heidi is intrinsically linking, by this time, her lawyer persona with her fannish persona. The twining of these two parts is clear when Heidi says in her post "I took this opportunity, and my job as an intellectual property/privacy/electronic commerce lawyer to do a little checking on caselaw" [18] Heidi goes on to mention that there is no case law though cease and desist letters have been sent out. The implication is that fan fiction writers have routinely, historically backed off when confronted with corporate lawyers. Heidi's knowledge of this thus makes her disclaimers of "The characters in this section all belong to JK Rowling, but if her people want to come after me, I can defend myself under both New York and Florida law." a bit more troubling. These disclaimers were against the norm for fandom. There are few other well known examples where a fan fiction author showed flagrant disregard for fannish standards of behavior which basically said that when you're asked to stop by the creators, you stop. Why this is not done is open to some speculation. There are three general arguments that could be made for why not. The first is that the average fan cannot afford to be sued. The second is that authors feared the backlash if they were sued that could put fan fiction at legal risk. The last reason is that it is a fannish tradition. At any rate, Heidi offers legal advice in the e-mail:
- Therefore, here's my This-Is-Not-Legal-Advice Statement: Fanfiction may or may not be copyright infringement, but you're definitely better off putting a disclaimer on it, and anyone who wants to risk being a test case on the question of whether fanfic is an infringement or not should go publish a Zine and send a copy to Warner Bros... [19]
Heidi's post, it should be noted, also included a response to Dai. Dai will later show up as being involved with Sinead as one of Cassandra Claire's alleged stalkers who hacked other people's accounts. The response to Dai that Heidi made gives no indication as to what is going to happen.
- Around mid-February 2001, Heidi8 became an elf for HPforGrownUps. Elves moderated the posts on the HPforGrownups list. [20] This gave Heidi a bit more concrete power in the Harry Potter fan fiction community that the community as a whole could see and acknowledge. Prior to that, Heidi's status in the fandom seemed to be measured more by who she was friends with and who she beta read for.
- On February 17, 2001, Cassandra Claire made the following post to HPforGrownUps:
- I would MUCH rather see Hermione end up with Draco than with Ron, as long as Draco mends his ways a bit (I don't want him to be "nice" either.) On alternate days, I would rather see Hermione wind up with Draco than with Harry. (A fact which affords Lori much pain, I am aware.) Ron/Hermione actively squicks me, Ron/Harry just puzzles me, and as for Ron/Draco...what CAN they be thinking?
- ...I don't think this necessarily means that I don't like Ron, which is an accusation often leveled at us H/H types...I like him okay. I just don't like him with Hermione. However, if the books do tend that way, I will survive. After all, Little Women is still one of my favorite childhood books, even though I have never forgiven Louisa May Alcott for what she did to Jo and Laurie -- a horrendous mistake IMHO. [21][22]
- This is somewhat of importance as Cassandra Claire is generally associated with either Harry/Hermione or Harry/Draco. Many people forget that, for a time, Cassandra Claire was actively dabbling in the Hermione/Draco ship, a pairing she shared with Heidi.
- In March of 2001, Sinead joined HPforGrownups. [23] Sinead would become one of Cassandra Claire's alleged stalkers in the later part of 2001.
- During the summer of 2001, Dai Evans, a Welsh member of HPforGrownups and a regular at the group's Sunday chats, and Sinead began dating. At some point, Dai and John Walton got into a fight during one of these chats. Dai and John continued not to get along. Sinead became anti-John in support of her boyfriend. [24]
- On August 12, 2001, there was one of the HPforGrownUps weekly chats. During this chat, Dai and John Walton had some sort of fight. The fight was so bad that Dai desubbed from HPforGrownUps and was still upset about it a week later. People who were present in that chat included Ebony, R. J. Anderson, Cassandra Claire, Saitania R. Moricia, John Walton/Crazy Ivan, and some others. This chat was the event that set into motion Sinead's other actions in defense of her boyfriend, Dai. Some of these actions would be wrongly blamed on Cassandra Claire's other alleged stalker, Jeff and Gryffindor Tower. This blame would continue be wrongly assigned by those parties years later, even going so far as to be mentioned by Msscribe who blamed Gryffindor Tower, not Sinead.
- On August 19, 2001, Cassandra Claire was participating in a HPforGrownUps chat. The log contained some interesting bits. This included that Cassandra Claire hated elves, could not spell J.R.R. Tolkien and did not like professional authors like Anne Rice who were not tolerant of fan fiction. The log also contained information which gives background to the events surrounding Sinead [25].
- Starting in November 2001 in the HPFGU chat, the beginning stages for the Nimbus planning started as an idea for having a HPforGrownUps meet up. [26]
- At the same time that the Jeff situation was going down, there was another alleged stalker incident. This involved a university student named Sinead. Cassandra Claire, Heidi and Stacey were accusing Sinead and her boyfriend, Dai, of hacking into Yahoo accounts of HPforGrownUps and John Walton in November 2001. [27][28]
[edit] Moderators past and present
[edit] Members past and present
[edit] External links
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